After reading the onslaught of email that has been sent to me since Rick Warren was announced as Obama's choice to deliver the invocation, I have to sound another trumpet blast as the other trumpets are blaring.
I have observed many heated blog discussions about the Obama's selection of Rick Warren as the invocation speaker. Many ask: Why is Obama allowing a range of representatives from the American constituency to participate in the inauguration ceremonies? Why isn't Obama shutting off access to those who express views that he doesn't support?
They think that shutting out everyone who doesn't think like we do is the wisest political strategy to undertake?
Is there a Christian minister in this country who is pro-abortion and pro-life, anti-gay rights and pro-gay rights, pro-gay marriage and anti-gay marriage? Is there another minister Obama should have chosen whose views will appease every group in the nation who voted for him?
Why Rick? He was named one of "The 25 Most Influential Evangelicals in America" by Time Magazine and has an enormous following worldwide. It was not shocking to me that Obama's advisory team placed Rick on the list of possible invitees. It is often assumed that Rick's core following is the white American conservative Christian. For the last twenty years, Rick Warren has been seeking to build a support base among the black, Latino and Asian moderates in the Christian community. He's made substantial progress on all fronts. His Pastors.com web site provides more free resources than any other ministry web site in the entire country.
Rick Warren is the keynote speaker at Martin Luther King, Jr. Annual Commemorative Service that is scheduled for January 19, 2009 at Ebenezer Baptist Church and is included in the official program of the ten-day King Center’s Martin Luther King, Jr. Celebration which begins on January 10th. He can put a check mark on his target list for scoring that coup: National media coverage and photos with respected black leaders.
Political strategists measure the expected level of support and the level of opposition for every decision announced by the President-Elect.
How many gays and lesbians will be outraged?
How many Christian progressives will be outraged?
How many pro-choice radicals will be outraged?
How many women will be outraged?
They identify the groups that will be outraged, estimate how long the outrage will last and identify the probable actions that will result from the outraged groups.
These political strategists knew that the outrage that would result from Rick Warren's participation would not have a lasting impact on Obama's approval rating. Political and religious commentators would debate each other on t.v., editorialists would write about the reactions of different segments of Obama's support base, while bloggers would have rant sessions. Meanwhile, there is no collective strategy that results in any type of punitive action by any of the outraged groups.
These political strategists aren't phased at all by the outcry from the black electorate. Everyone knows that Obama received 80% of the black vote while promising black voters absolutely nothing for their loyalty. Obama's team knows that it doesn't matter if black voters lodge complaints because there is a large segment of the black electorate that will unconditionally support Obama's re-election. Everyone knows the black electorate doesn't have a national strategy in place to hold politicians accountable.
Over the last few days, I have read blog discussions in which black bloggers were expressing outrage about the implications of Rick Warren's enhanced global credibility, post-inauguration. They are concerned that world leaders will pay close attention to who has received the endorsement of the new president. Whether Obama wants to admit it or not, we all know that an invitation gives the perception of endorsement. The political maneuvering of Rick Warren has reached its zenith as he declares "checkmate!" and takes the podium. He's hardly surprised that he has seized center stage. He has been building his platform for three decades.
The Obama who now answers his critics by saying "everyone's voice should be heard" is the same Obama who sternly denounced his own pastor when white people decided that his pastor's views about the U.S. government were offensive, and decided to be offended that blacks at his church focused on the problems of the black community by outlining an agenda.
The Obama victory was a case study in how white people are willing to bake, glaze and package cosmetic racial progress - as long as everyone follows their rules on their game board.
Obama distanced himself from the esteemed black spiritual leader whose views intimidated white people - but now Obama says he's "open to dialogue" with the esteemed white spiritual leader who offends gays and progressives. What happened to the Obama who distanced himself from anyone whose views were divisive?
The church and the state are odd bed fellows.
Over the years, I have watched how power is being bartered among the spiritual leaders who have a national following.
Rather unexpectedly, I was quickly brought into a global ministry conglomerate to work as a papal scribe for a well-connected televangelist. I was not impressed with him and had not paid much attention to his ministry, although I knew that his ministry was operating throughout the world. I quickly learned that this bishop had political connections throughout the world. He has had private dinners with several heads of state in order to give "spiritual counsel". He can tap into contacts at The World Bank and the United Nations. The general public doesn't realize how often these televangelists are part of the private conversations in corridors of power.
This summer, I was contacted by a televangelist who asked me to write devotional material for a head-of-state. After I sent it to him, he got on a plane and hand-delivered it. All of this took place away from the media. Do you think this head-of-state won't invite him to a ceremony?
These strategic inroads are crafted skillfully. It is clear to me that the church has chosen to have many one-night-stands with the state. At times, the church is the well-paid and pampered mistress who has no intention of demanding marriage.
There are many speculations about which spiritual leader will be the spokesperson for American Christianity. While other members of the clergy are sitting on the sidelines making speculations, the spiritual leaders who are focused on dominance are well into the implementation of their strategy. There are many t.v. preachers who hire public relations strategists and political experts. No one takes the political spotlight without a strategy. Rick Warren's invitation to participate was not a fluke. His presidential forum was part of his strategy and was not an idea that popped into his head during the campaign.
Read his web site and you'll see that Rick Warren is interested in making sure that his ministry's message has "the largest participation", "the widest distribution", "the longest continuation", "the fastest expansion" and "the simplest administration" (substitute "shrewdest").
Rick Warren told Ann Curry in a Dateline interview that with one mouse click, he can send a message to 250,000 pastors in 163 countries.
The marketing strategy of his conglomerate is astounding. The P.E.A.C.E. plan uses this slogan: "Ordinary people empowered by God making a difference together wherever they are." Sounds inclusive, doesn't it?
There are several expansive initiatives that Rick Warren has launched that have had a phenomenal impact on those in need. I believe that the Purpose-Driven series that Rick Warren (and others) developed is a tremendous resource to churches.
Rick Warren has not kept his political platform a secret.
I see many global ministry leaders adopting a three-fold strategy:
- a humanitarian focus,
- an apostolic focus, and
- a political focus.
Why is Rick Warren controversial?
Rick Warren is against homosexuality/lesbianism in the body of Christ. He's not hunting down gays and lesbians in society but he would prefer that they join someone else's church.
Rick Warren is against gay marriage legislation and believes that marriage is defined as a heterosexual covenant. He is against "redefinition of marriage".
Rick Warren is against abortion.
Rick Warren is against stem cell research.
Rick Warren is pro AIDS/HIV advocacy.
Rick Warren is pro Africa outreach for humanitarian aid. (It's now in vogue for preachers to openly care about Africa while staying silent about wars financed by U.S. corporations.)
Many bloggers have insisted that Rick Warren is not supportive of women in ministerial roles and that he is not supportive of women in church leadership. Someone better tell him that his wife is a woman because she helped him start his church and now leads a global ministry that he financed. She is publishing books and preaching to crowds all over the world. Her husband mentions her ministry work everywhere he goes.
Over a year ago, I sat and listened to a t.v. preacher tell the crowd: "Overnight my message went into 1,000 countries". I learned that this happened because of a restructuring of a television network merger. Do you think that the politicians have nothing to do with network mergers? The church and the state make odd bed fellows.
At times, I am annoyed when I hear black women complaining about the shenanigans of others who are methodically executing successful (and dubious) strategies. We fail to shut down the opponents' strategies when they are set in motion...but later we scream about their success.
When will we decide to hunt down political weapons before they are unleashed? Must we always show up late?
I have lost count of the number of times that I have heard my ministry colleagues railing against the "show biz" preachers who are "fleecing the flock". Just when does that outrage translate into collective action? I don't silence the voices of protest but I silence the ranting and raving that yields no tangible strategy.
Where is the blueprint? I see many blog rant sessions that continue for days...calls to action announced...and no one in the conversation has introduced a blueprint. I want to invite the participants of this think tank to think about the blueprint that is necessary.
It seems that there are so many esteemed members of the black clergy who claim to be so politically-astute and so knowledgeable about the maneuvers of the Religious Right. I must ask: "Just how has the Religious Right gained so much ground under your watch?"
I know a CEO who regularly has lunch with members of the media. There are high profile celebrity preachers who have alliances with different media outlets. Do you think that certain people just "happen" to be invited to give their opinions on t.v. while others are not?
Rick Warren has allies in places that you would not expect. These men who have multi-million ministry conglomerates implement a global strategy and have public allies and invisible allies. I was told explicitly by a well-known spiritual leader that he viewed me as a "secret weapon" in his matrix.
There is a huge difference between the expansion of power baseis and the identification of proteges within ministry networks.
There is a huge difference between the expansion of power bases and the cultivation of supporters of our ministry.
There is a huge difference between the expansion of power bases and the initiation of friendship networks in the ministry.
The expansion of power bases usually requires that we engage with our detractors in order to disarm them and establish a bartering system with them. Very few leaders will admit that they engage with their opponents with the intention of bartering power chips.
Several months ago, I wrote a post about "Black Women and The Redefinition of Power" because too many of us are content to gain access to circles of influence. We don't strategize for dominance. Take a look at the black church construct that is financed by black women and controlled by black men. There is not one major black denomination that is led by a woman. Look at the conference agenda of women in ministry conferences. You probably will not find that there are sessions planned that focus on tactical strategy to train women in ministry leadership how to construct blueprints that will enable black women to dominate the most crucial spheres of influence.
It is disturbing to me to hear black women crying "foul!" every time we are out-maneuvered. We need to master the game board. I am not justifying underhanded tactics and back door strategies, but we need to proactively plan to address underhanded tactics and back door strategies.
The expansion of the strategy of Rick Warren requires deep pockets, even if these ministry leaders want to pretend that they accomplish everything that they do on a shoe-string budget and "Kumbaya". What's in the war chest, sistas?
This case study of Rick Warren and his march into the White House has many valuable lessons that we can't ignore.
Pundit Sarah Posner wrote, "Obama had thousands of clergy to choose from, and the choice of Warren is not only a slap in the face to progressive ministers toiling on the front lines of advocacy and service but a bow to the continuing influence of the religious right in American politics. Warren vocally opposes gay marriage, does not believe in evolution, has compared abortion to the Holocaust and backed the assassination of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad."
Black women have fought long and hard for inclusion. Many of us have made inclusion the highest goal. Over time, we decided that we wanted inclusion and equality. We accepted a few convoluted distortions and began to embrace cosmetic equality as an acceptable substitute. This acceptance of cosmetic equality as a measurement of social progress became a decoy that was used by those who wanted to keep our focus off of dominance.
We were invited to the table. We were happy to see a name tag at the table that validated our sense of belonging. We were grinned at and complimented for the "progress" we made by sitting at the table. We accepted pats on the back for being "symbols" of cosmetic equality.
By the time we notice what's happening, the feast is over, the dessert has been served and we are sitting before an empty plate. Dominance is the dessert that others savor, that we do not partake of.
Many lessons must be grasped as we watch Rick Warren capitalize upon his latest political coup. A most important lesson to begin with: Let's stop showing up late for dinner and complaining that we didn't have any dessert.
Tuesday, December 23, 2008
OBAMA HOLDS THE DOOR AS RICK WARREN POURS THE WINE
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45 COMMENTS:
3 z-formation finger snaps in salute to another excellent post}
Well...I need to meditate on this some more, but I guess one of the first steps in to figure out what we (in our various capacities, collectives and teams) want.
I know what I, as an individual, want for myself & my loved ones. I don't know what any collectives that I am a member of (AA women, AA Muslim women, Black women in general of all ethnicities & faith traditions, etc.) want.
Do Christian Black women even want dominance of anything? For example, I've concluded that most of the Muslim Black women I've observed want to be dominated by what they perceive to be strong men.
We need to ask collectively: Dominance of what? For what purpose?
Again, I can answer these questions on an individual level. [I want a dominant market share in the industry niche that I'm entering. I want this so that I can provide financial freedom for myself; and additional income stream opportunities for others. I want this so I can do some large-scale public interest projects.] Clearly knowing what I want helps me streamline & focus my strategy & efforts.
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
Hi,Lisa:
It is the sho-nuf truth. I love how you lay it down talking about our lack of a strategy to deal with people who are organizing for dominance. I agree. We treat Obama, a centrist politician, more like a savior than another politician we need to push to give regular folks what they deserve.
We sorely need a strong, independent, progressive movement comprising all geneders and races to counter this. In structure and policies, it should represent equality toward women, blacks and gays. It should not be attached to that sorry democratic party. And it should not be led by college intellectuals who want to do a lot of talk but no action. It should be led by somebody that's not afraid to speak out, to protest in myriads of ways.
We need a strong independent party headed by someone like Cynthia McKinney.No.
Centrist politician will always let us down. Remember what Bill Clinton did to Sista Soldier? Remember how he started NAFTA, agreements that's still causing American jobs to go to Mexico and China?
One day, black women, like the rest of us, are going to wake up and begin to think that we should have been organizing an independent movement like yesterday, BEFORE Obama became president.
Luv u, Sis.
Lisa you are just on fire with this post!
I certainly hope we can-and I can contribute to- finding a way to gain dominance on things related to food, health, healthy eating; because I am extremely wary of the FDA, et al.
Also dominance in the media. (including historical and science type info that gets said)
Dominance in Statistics. There I shamefully admit to dropping the ball as a Statistics major back in college.
And finally a "know your opponent" type of understanding, but I am not sure how to express that yet.
Perhaps a lesson in "shrewdness"?
Hi,
During Obama's Presidential campaign I noted to many African Americans that Obama never campaigned to African Americans. My observation was always met with hostility.
I believe that African American unconditional support of Obama and by extension to Democrats is why we collectively have no political power.
We have let the Republicans and Democrats play good cop/ bad cop for the last 40 years with us and have not done anything to end their game.
Your post gives me a little hope to know that there are some other African Americans who are wise to the game being played on us and won't sit quietly.
I know that the black experience is not monolithic, but neither is anyone else's. You are absolutely 100% correct - The black community needs a national strategy to hold politicians accountable or we will continue to get played as we have since we arrived in this country!
I am not one who was shocked at Obama choosing Warren.
I have always seen him as a politician whose mantra under all the public rhetoric is "expedience".
He does what he has to do to get where he wants to go.
It seems as though he has been reading a playbook of Clinton's presidency.
In office, I think he will be triangulating like crazy...just like Clinton did while in office.
He told everybody what they wanted to hear then did what he thought would get him the most support from the people he had to "woo," the folks who were not going anywhere because they would only vote Democratic.
As a result, he was able to get elected twice...I hope Obama will be smarter though, and not get caught in any scandals, contrary to Clinton.
Welcome Khadija!
Thank you for starting off this conversation!
You asked:
"Do Christian Black women even want dominance of anything?"
My perception has been that my sistas in the black church construct do not even discuss dominance in ANY sphere of society.
From what I am hearing, many of them believe that inclusion an acceptable substitute for influence.
Over the years, I have learned that white America doesn't have much problem now with allowing access. Access isn't threatening anymore. It's only threatening if their power bases are being dismantled.
You posted a great question to the group:
"We need to ask collectively: Dominance of what? For what purpose?"
I am sure that there will be different responses to that question from different commenters.
I doubt that white people ask each other: "what is the purpose of our race dominating spheres of influence?"
They don't ask that question of each other because it is clear to them. They clearly understand what they stand to gain by maintaining white supremacist constructs.
I believe that this is why there have been so many bogus attempts to "sell" the notion of cosmetic equality to the black masses.
I imagine that it must be quite reassuring for those who have a vested interest in reinforcing white supremacist constructs to take note of how the black masses are content to celebrate symbols of cosmetic equality.
I appreciate the substance that you continue to bring to this think tank.
This discussion is just warming up so please return often!
Peace, blessings and DUNAMIS!
Lisa
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Welcome MacDaddy!
Thank you for stopping by!
I am dismayed that there doesn't seem to be a sense of urgency about the identification of a national strategy among our people.
Peace, blessings and DUNAMIS!
Lisa
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Welcome Miriam!
Thanks for adding to this conversation!
I want all of us to think about the criteria we use to identify our allies and our adversaries.
We often allow others to tell us who to trust and who to distrust.
I hope we will discuss this as a group during the course of this conversation.
Peace, blessings and DUNAMIS!
Lisa
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Welcome Monie!
Thank you so much for finding my blog!
Please feel free to return and comment on previous discussions. We never close any discussion on any post.
I am not surprised that you noticed hostility from others when pointing out how we have been bamboozled.
There is always hostility and suspicion directed at those who start asking questions that put attention on our accountability.
There are a few people who came to this think tank with hostility to hurl in my direction. I sent them packing! They were resentful because the discussions at this think tank required introspection and required the identification of specific accountabilities.
You mentioned Obama's campaign strategy. Obama ignored the black electorate just as dutifully as any other politician would have.
In my opinion, Obama's approach with the black electorate was a total farce because he coasted along on the emotionalism of symbolism in order to have the support of black voters.
At this point, I do not see an extraordinary leader in Obama. Many have decided that he is and we really have no proof of that. I see that he is purposeful, but that does not make him extraordinary.
Peace, blessings and DUNAMIS!
Lisa
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Welcome Pastor!
Thank you for sharing your thoughts!
I hope that you will share your with insights with the group about:
1 - how Rick Warren has been an "enemy" to the black community
2 - how Rick Warren has been an "enemy" to the black church
3 - what has substantiated those accusations
I am assuming that you believe he is an "enemy", and if this is an erroneous assumption, then pleeease accept my apologies.
I was reading an article this morning in which Rick Warren was being accused by white progressives of being hypocritical because he said he loves gays and lesbians. They decided that it is hypocritical for him to say he loves gays and lesbians while teaching that God condemns homosexuality and lesbianism.
I fail to see where there is hypocrisy in that because it is possible for a Christian to love all humanity and still teach about God's condemnation.
God loves but God also condemns.
Peace, blessings and DUNAMIS!
Lisa
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Welcome (Rev.) Pioneer Valley Woman!
Thanks for joining in this conversation!
The masses seem to have convinced themselves that Obama is going to be such a moral leader for our time. I don't cling to those fantasies.
I believe that he's willing to barter, break promises and cut deals.
Time will tell.
I have a few other comments that I want to put on the table for further consideration.
1 - I hear the screams of protest from many black bloggers about Rick Warren, but I believe that those screams are a bit hollow.
Most black people should recognize by now that our community is anti-homosexuality and anti-lesbian.
I will invite any lesbian or homosexual person who reads this blog confirm my observation.
It is no secret to any of us that it is perfectly acceptable to reject homosexuals and lesbians in the black community.
2 - There is nothing wrong with Rick Warren stating that he is against gay marriage. Obama is against gay marriage and has said that he supports civil unions.
Obama defines marriage the same way that Rick Warren does.
There is nothing wrong with Rick Warren stating that he believes God condemns homosexuality and lesbianism. The Religious Right supports that view and a huge segment of the black church does too!
A few months ago, I found that one blogger was shocked to learn that I believe homosexuality/lesbianism is a sin. I am not sure why that was a shocker.
I don't believe that anyone has to think as I do or live as I do in order to have my friendship.
3 - Rick Warren is against abortion and the black church doesn't even talk about abortion! The black church certainly has not been carrying the pro-choice banner!
Black women in church won't even admit they have had abortions! They aren't ashamed of having children out of wedlock, but abortion is shameful and a secret to carry to the grave.
There are twice as many black babies being aborted than there are black babies being born. We don't mention abortion statistics in the black church construct.
My problem with Rick Warren is not that he has openly touted his belief that God condemns homosexuality and lesbianism. That belief is not so rare in the Christian community.
My problem is with the manner in which he has framed his positions for public consumption. Preachers need to think very carefully about how they are framing these issues.
Rick Warren has forged alliances with persons who are not viewed as allies of blacks. In my mind, this does not mean that Rick Warren becomes an "enemy" by association. I honestly believe that establishing those types of sweeping conclusions is a grave mistake.
I would need to know the purpose of the alliance before I would make that determination.
I have created associations with people whose ideologies I will not embrace. I don't support the doctrine of the Nation of Islam, and I don't support the history of their subjugation of women.
I would still work with members of the Nation of Islam on common objectives that benefit our people. Unlike many Christian clergymen, I wouldn't be secretive about working with them either.
I was happy to see that Dr. Wright has publicly acknowledged Louis Farrakhan as a friend. The ridiculous assumption that white America wanted to toss up in our faces is that friendships signify an acceptance of common ideologies. That's not true.
I have friends who do not share my spiritual beliefs, political beliefs or cultural beliefs.
I don't think Louis Farrakhan is anti-semetic. He made anti-semetic statements years ago. Unlike many others, I don't take the statements of public figures and put them in a time capsule.
People who do this assume that people will never change their ideologies or positions on anything. I don't embrace that mindset. Listening to audio tape of statements that Farrakhan made years ago is not evidence that he embraces those same perspectives right now.
I am interested in hearing your take on this.
Peace, blessings and DUNAMIS!
Lisa
Most of the time, I don't even have anything to contribute. I'm just so taken by your presentation of information. You are very good at connecting the dots. So I'm just here to say: keep up the good work and I'll be recommending you to plenty of friends.
Greetings Lisa,
"Church and state are odd bed fellows," indeed:)
I, like Khadija, will need to meditate on this subject some more. But, you have certainly provided a lot of insight for me.
My mother, yesterday while riding along in her car, gave me an ear full about Obama having chosen Rick Warren. I will definitely forward your commentary to her.
It is imperative that we (women, people, African Americans) cease wasting time fussing and complaining about unjust politics, thinking that we are appropriately addressing the problem. Whining is all but productive. Our time is better spent providing solutions.
You're right, early assessment is key. Injustice must be counteracted (shut down) far before it has any impact. Coming along after the fact is pointless.
Thank you, Lisa. I am honored and delighted to have been added to your blogroll. I am truly enjoying this site. It is such a valuable resource. I am definitely adding you to my list as well.
~Peace & Blessings to you this glorious holiday season.
Hi Lisa! Great discussion. I think your emphasis asbout blueprint is right on. Because yeah, otherwise traditionally high-percent democrat groups, such as black women, progressives, etc. are taken for granted as captive by the (D) candidate.
What industry niche are you entering, BTW?
Hi Lisa! Great discussion. I think your emphasis asbout blueprint is right on. Because yeah, otherwise traditionally high-percent democrat groups, such as black women, progressives, etc. are taken for granted as captive by the (D) candidate.
What industry niche are you entering, BTW?
Wanted to stop by to say Merry Christmas, Lisa!
Will be back to read yet another interesting/informative post :-).
Welcome Emeritus!
Thank you for dropping by!
I am certain that you have much to add to this think tank. Every blog guest has a unique set of life experiences that have produced a set of beliefs.
I am interested in hearing as many points of view from our brothas and sistas as possible.
Thank you so much for your encouragement! I greatly appreciate it.
I'll keep the wood in the fire!
Peace, blessings and DUNAMIS!
Lisa
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Welcome LaTonya!
Thank you for visiting my blog! I was so thrilled to have stumbled upon yours! I will come back and read more!
Peace, blessings and DUNAMIS!
Lisa
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Welcome Octogalore!
Thank you for finding my blog!
I am ecstatic every time I have the opportunity to meet critical thinkers online!
There are always several discussions going on simultaneously at this blog so please feel free to add comments to any posts!
Peace, blessings and DUNAMIS!
Lisa
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Welcome CurvyGirl!
Thanks for your Christmas greetings!
I will stop by your place and spread some Christmas cheer! I am trying to stop by blogs and pass out hugs and greetings this week!
Please feel free to come back soon! I'd love to hear your take on this, and I am happy to examine other angles.
Peace, blessings and DUNAMIS!
Lisa
Thank you so much for the Christmas wishes. Yes, I a VERY much do the "Christ"mas thing. I just thought I'd be 'politically correct' and do a Happy Holidays post as not to exclude anyone. I hope you and yours have a happy and safe Christmas and New Year.
Hey there, I've got to say that I was a bit wary of President-Elect Obama when I discovered he was pro-choice and pro-death penalty. As a pro-life Christian I wanted a black president who would understand what Martin Luther King's niece and daughter have told us about the genocidal and soul-killing nature of abortions in black communities. Hey, I'm for legal abortion but morally, it's totally wrong.
I had also wanted a president who I could count on to stop executions of retarded black male and female prisoners or folks who were probably innocent but railroaded by a racist penal system. But that didn't happen either.
Yet, I have to say I was impressed when I saw his cabinet picks. He is showing all Americans what we black folks have always known...that we are a fair-minded people who see all men as brothers. As for Rick Warren, I'm pro gay civil ceremonies but against gay marriage. I know my radical gay friends well enough to know that many of them are totally aimed toward destroying the church and the Bible and there's a war on to bring down any church that doesn't tow the gay line. I'm all for civil rights but I hate bullying that wants to force folks to give up the religious views they inherited from their spiritual ancestors.
I have to say that I agree with you 100%. I'm also going to add that it is not what people say - it is what they do. We know what Warren does. He was part of the Prop 8 support that made sure that gay married people in California are no longer married. He has compared gay marriages to pedophila and incest. Now I am seeing Obama's actions. The actions are beginning to be very different than his words. I am now paying attention. He is selling one segment down the river to appease the same segment that Bush was in bed with. I am no longer listening to the people that say having Warren speak is a good strategy. I am observing that we have lost because we had no strategy. The ruse is up and we fell for the game.
Well I read this post and don't feel good. I hadn't thought of things from this perspective and it is very insightful. I don't know if there are enough people collectively to come together to make any inroads.
I don't think BW have been thinking about dominating anything but for few exceptions: like the Williams Sisters with tennis. It's dismissed as an athletic prowess that's racially based and not planning and strategy. Some are happy with being Honorary Members of something with no authority.
Others never even consider that it can be done - and it's not as if they've had any examples in their immediate vicinity to reject the idea. So many of us are just focused on getting by day to day that nothing else is even feasible.
I just find all the calculating and behind the scenes moves to signify nefarious purposes instead of earnestness because I find it rare to see "honest" people navigating their way through these scenarios and relationships.
Of course this is turning everything on its head to me. But then to read the Gospels Jesus wasn't a master strategist or triangulator either, but that wasn't his purpose.
I have an issue with homophobes though and the use of "religion" to spread hatred and dissent. Usually people who claim to be preaching the "Word of God" in the Black community as justification for not supporting gays have lifestyles that do not reflect anything close to being "righteous" themselves.
As for abortion if those numbers are correct there is a serious epidemic going on because of the number of children that are being born in fractured households with mostly unmarried mothers is quite high. I can't imagine if the population doubled with unwanted children. Are these children products of poor decisions or rapes?
Is the Black community of the average Black American with roots in the South totally lost with a ticking clock signaling the end?
Merry Christmas, Miss Toya!
Thank you for coming by on Christmas and bringing Christmas cheer! I warmly appreciate your kindness!
Please feel welcome to come back and share your views any time!
Peace, blessings and DUNAMIS!
Lisa
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Merry Christmas, Carole!
Thanks for visiting on Christmas! I appreciate your willingness to present the "bullying" aspect of the activism of some segments of the gay/lesbian community.
I have also noticed the "guilt trip" aspect of some of the activism as well. There's this vicious "gay is the new black" platform that is now gaining traction. I am disturbed by it because it attempts to place racial discrimination in the same sphere as sexual identity discrimination.
Did I miss something? Did gays/lesbians show up in this country in chains after being brought here forcibly? Did gays/lesbians have limbs cut off of their bodies for running for freedom, or hang from trees by nooses while the masses cheered?
I know there is violence against gays/lesbians but it is not close to the level of domestic terrorism of black enslavement that America financed. A few of my gay/lesbian friends have tried to argue that point with me. It is futile.
I remember how often some of my Jewish friends in school claimed that they faced racial oppression "like the blacks" and that they had been discriminated against "like the blacks". They forget, so conveniently, that they still benefit from white privilege in a society that certainly has many mechanisms in place to reinforce it.
There were as many gentiles killed in the Holocaust as there were Jews killed. I don't have any Jewish friends who have made that statement or who care about that glaring statistic. They only quote the statistics pertaining to the Jews that were killed.
I don't even bother with "who's been more oppressed?" discussions.
You mentioned the cabinet selected by Obama and his advisors.
There were no huge surprises for me in the selections made by Obama for his cabinet. I was disappointed that the most qualified person for the Secretary of State post did not get it. Obama had to repay a favor and permit a less-qualified white person to take the post. This is not the first time that a black person who was more qualified was passed over and a white person was selected due to insider political shenanigans.
I am not saying that Hillary did not deserve a cabinet post, but I am saying she wasn't the most qualified person to serve as Secretary of State.
I am happy to hear that you are optimistic enough to believe that "that we are a fair-minded people who see all men as brothers". I believe that some of our people are fair-minded and some of our people see all men as brothers.
While I am a Christian, I do not see all men as brothers because I realize that there are enemies of my race, enemies of Christianity, and enemies of critical issues that matter to the perservation of black women.
I believe God wanted all men to be brothers but knew that evil would exist in the world.
There is a set of criteria for identifying who are "brothers" and who are "enemies". I draw the lines clearly. I just don't always announce where those lines are.
You said (in part):
"I'm all for civil rights but I hate bullying that wants to force folks to give up the religious views they inherited from their spiritual ancestors."
In the black church construct, I encounter many people who "inherited their religious views". At times, it is puzzling to me to encounter those who embrace a definition of Christianity that was constructed by listening to people who were deemed Bible experts instead of a definition that was constructed by listening to God. (This is not to say that those they listened to had not heard from God.)
I did not grow up in a Christian household so family influence did not play a role in the formation of my definition of Christianity.
I was at Hampton Ministers Conference years ago (the nation's largest gathering of black clergy) when Jacqueline McCullough asked that all ministers and pastors who didn't know Jesus as Lord to come up to the altar! The crowd gasped.
The assumption that everyone who claims to be Christian is a Christian is terribly naive.
The assumption that everyone who graduates from seminary and is hired in a ministerial role and handed a title has received Jesus as Lord is outlandishly naive. Unfortunately, I have encountered many people in the church construct who continue to embrace this assumption.
There are those who have heard about Jesus and speak about Jesus and teach about Jesus without ever having a real relationship with Jesus. There is an assumption that everyone who is talking and teaching Jesus has a relationship with Jesus.
Many people have been burned, bamboozled and exploited in church constructs by clinging to this assumption.
I don't believe that I hold any "religious views" because I don't define Christianity as a religion. This is very difficult for so many people in the church construct to hear me say that! It is ingrained in their minds to accept (and intellectually validate) the intermingling of "religion" and their concept of Christianity.
Related Link:
"Religion or Christ: What's The Difference?"
http://www.rbc.org/uploadedfiles/
Bible_Study/Discovery_Series/PDF/
Religion_Or_Christ.pdf
I don't see myself as a "religious" person but I know that I am a deeply spiritual person. Over the years, it has become clear to me that a person can be deeply "religious" and never know who God is.
I have met many "spiritual" people who are worshipping Satan so I acknowledge that being spiritual is not synonymous with being Christian.
I am so happy that you dropped by today. I hope that this conversation continues to expand.
You have given me more to chew on.
Peace, blessings and DUNAMIS!
Lisa
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Welcome Steadycat!
Thanks for sharing your views.
We do need to be more vigilant.
Obama had a lot of stirring speeches. More black voters need to start thoroughly examining his strategy. (Listening to pundits speak about the Obama strategy doesn't count as an examination!)
We are extremely late in undertaking this collective examination.
I have been around many skillful strategists in my life, and I have learned that the "master strategist" always has an external strategy AND an internal strategy.
What should our external strategy consist of?
What should our internal strategy consist of?
I have no problem with Rick Warren choosing to be involved in the political arena as an influencer of policy. I don't think Rick's methods in navigating the political and class landscape should be emulated, eventhough his tactics were successful.
I do not believe that clergy has to distance themselves from the political arena. I believe we have made a mistake in the black church by relying on 501(c)(3) IRS exemption status for legitimacy when we KNEW that we were accepting limitations that would diminish our ability to organize the black masses politically.
I am glad that several people have shown up here to elevate this dialogue.
Peace, blessings and DUNAMIS!
Lisa
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Welcome Faith!
You have shared some thoughts that so many of our people are thinking. I am glad that you have placed those feelings out there.
Black people represent 14% of the population. We are not the largest minority group in this country, however. There are now more than 33 million black people in this country! This statistic does not include the swelling numbers of illegal immigrants who are black who are here.
Related link:
http://www.numbersusa.com/content/
issues.html
While there are immigration raids to "catch" the Mexican illegals, there are no immigration raids occurring in the black neighborhoods. Why?
Black illegal immigrants often try to blend into the black American communities by wearing Western clothing and hair styles.
I feel that the Africans and Caribs who are in this country illegally are extremely relieved that the U.S. government is focusing on the Mexican illegal immigrants.
The focus on the Mexican illegals takes the spotlight off of the outrageously high numbers of Africans and Caribs who are illegal immigrants.
Faith, I strongly believe that we DO have the numbers. We just don't have the level of consciousness needed. We all need to raise consciousness so that the black masses will understand the urgency of collective action, and will embrace the mandate of adopting dominance strategy.
On many levels, black people have failed to forge alliances outside of the traditional channels created by self-appointed non-black groups that are declaring themselves "allies of black causes".
It gives me a headache when I see scores of black people who are willing to allow any group or any leader to come to blacks and declare they are "allies".
Where's the proof?
Where's the vetting process?
Some think that giving us their sympathy is proof that they are allies.
BOGUS.
Some think that listening to our concerns is proof that they are allies.
BOGUS.
Some think that presenting their group's discrimination wounds to us as a parallel to discrimination against blacks is proof that they are allies.
BOGUS.
I don't fall for the okey doke. That is one reason why my think tank does not have a town hall meeting format.
With a few exceptions, black women have not been conditioned to think about attaining dominance of spheres of influence. Most have not been conditioned to embrace a mindset that reinforces the need for strategic dominance. Have white men? Certainly.
The two industries where blacks are viewed as "successes" are sports and entertainment.
I believe that this is why so many young black teens are adopting a minstrelsy mentality. They associate minstrel success with the American dream.
White corporations own this "talent" and they can toss them out of the arena whenever they feel like it.
About 25 years ago when hip hop started exploding, white corporations decided to create a smoke screen for the black consumer:
Get high-profile black celebrities. Make them "vanity CEOs" of corporations that are actually white-owned and white-controlled. Publicize these business deals as "corporate partnerships" to the black consumer.
The result of this ploy?
The scores of gullible black consumers think that they are supporting a black-owned corporation and they become loyal to certain product lines!
Some uneducated celebrity who may not have even finished high school and who can't even speak English correctly is now running a multi-million dollar conglomerate as a seasoned CEO? Our people need to recalibrate the Gullible Meter.
A "corporate partnership" can be a product endorsement contract. It doesn't mean that the celebrity is majority owner in the corporation.
We are bamboozled, once again!
Oprah is a billionaire and has now has established O.W.N. but she is financially connected with Discovery. Oprah has successful magazines - owned by a white corporation (Hearst). Oprah is very shrewd in identifying corporate allies that will further her financial goals and expand the influence of her brand.
There is a perception I have noted in many Christian circles that "honest people are not shrewd".
I believe that we need to dismantle those defeatist perceptions. I used the term "defeatist" to describe those perceptions because they validate mediocrity and reinforce the current construct of class subjugation and racial subjugation.
I have an issue with those who accept homophobia.
I have an issue with those who accept "negro-phobia" as well!
Most people I have encountered who view homosexuality/lesbianism as a sin are not "homophobes". Their position about homosexuality/lesbianism is not rooted in a fear of gays/lesbians at all. It is rooted in their conceptualization of what they believe about God's positions.
I have gay/lesbian friends who put the "homophobe" label on anyone who does not support issues that benefit gays/lesbians. This is another dubious tactic of coercion and emotional blackmail.
People are become defensive when they are accused of being "homophobic" and they want to prove to gays/lesbians that they are not! I don't fall for the okey doke and I refute that tactic every time I see it.
I listen to so many people say "God is a God of love and God loves everybody." It is true. This statement does not erase the reality that God also speaks condemnation.
I hear these sweeping statements that "you Christians are supposed to love and not judge" and this is absolutely bogus. Being loving does not mean that there is no moral standard to accept. Being loving does not mean that there is no distinction made between righteous and evil. Being loving does not mean that we can not or should not draw the lines in the sand.
I hear people making statements like "God loves all of us no matter what". True. This doesn't mean that God did not/does not speak condemnation about anything.
This mind game that is pulled on gullible Christians that tell them that they have to show acceptance of anything and everything people choose to do in this world in order to prove we are godly is a farce.
You are making an excellent point about those who want to speak about righteousness who don't live godly lives.
Allow me to share this angle:
I have ministered to drug addicts who clearly did not understand their own addiction but were skillfully pointing out the depravity of someone else's addiction. It still doesn't make their statements FALSE! It only means that their statements lack self-examination and self-accountability.
Those who want to discount the observations made by those who are not self-examining are creating a diversion in order to diminish the veracity of what has been communicated.
You mentioned the rape stats.
The rape statistics I presented are from a pro-life web site that I will not link to because it displays photos of bloody and mutilated baby corpses. I went to the sites that this organization linked to and found several sites were credible sources of research data.
The Guttmacher Institute presents statistics that almost 70% of pregnancies of black women are unintended. I actually think that the actual numbers are even higher than their research findings. Family planning is not stressed in the black community.
It's not stressed in the white community either - but I feel that black women stand to lose the most ground socioeconomically from our permissiveness of unintended pregnancies.
It is reported that 37% of abortions in this country are performed on black women although black women are only 9% of the population. Outrageous!
We still need to keep in mind that many white women have abortions privately at medical facilities that do not report their patient data while most black women utilize publicly-funded clinics that report statistics! This is important to mention when we toss out these stats.
Another point that has to be mentioned is that Planned Parenthood has intentionally placed 70% of their abortion clinics in areas populated by blacks who are in the lower socieconomic segment of society.
Does anyone have to wonder if there is a strategy behind this extreme level of abortion marketing to blacks?
How interesting that these black women who are in the lower socioeconomic classes don't have access to channels of financial capital but they are given plenty of access to abortion services.
You mentioned the connection between unintended pregnancies and rape.
I don't believe that the majority of unintended pregnancies of black women occur because of rape. (I can't prove this though.)
I am a rape trauma responder and women who come to the E.R. after rape are given Mifepristone in many hospitals that have a sexual assault program. I was called into the E.R. after a woman came in who was drugged and had been gang-raped in her own neighborhood. I reviewed the list of medications she was given and pulled her E.R. doctor off to the side to ask for his thoughts about Mifepristone, since he had not administered it.
It is interesting that you said (in part):
"But then to read the Gospels Jesus wasn't a master strategist or triangulator either, but that wasn't his purpose."
I don't believe that anything that happened was a fluke. I believe that Jesus had a strategy and a plan and that it was executed without error.
I believe that God knew the time and place of everything that happened before it happened. I believe that there was a reason and a plan for Jesus being "in relative obscurity" until He was in his 30s.
I am sure there are some Christians out there who don't believe that.
I believe that Jesus instructed His disciples to be observant and to be shrewd (i.e. "as wise as serpents"). I believe the black church must become shrewd AND strategic.
I feel that the black church leadership needs to stop validating political infancy among the black masses.
"Barack The Vote!" campaigns were great but being a voter is not the same as being a policy changer. In spite of the voter registration emphasis in the black community, there was not a significant increase in black voter participation in this election.
Those who are committed to conscious-raising certainly have our work cut out for us.
You have truly added some interesting points of view to this group dialogue and we are all richer because of it.
Peace, blessings and DUNAMIS!
Lisa
Wow! This blog post has really got me thinking. First off I want to say that I know of at least 2 mega black churches run by Black Women. One is in Chicago (Johnny Coleman) and the other is in Atlanta (her name escapes me). But your point is well taken that black women in church (or generally) are NOT looking for dominance and we should be. Disclaimer: I don't attend church so my views on Black christian women are developed from afar.
Regarding: inclusion vs. dominance
I must concur that Black women ONLY/MOSTLY aim for inclusion with few exceptions, even if they don't realize that is what they are doing. Sometimes we THINK we are aiming for dominance when we are in reality only aiming for inclusion. I am including myself in this number of women. This is something that I have thought about before; but reading this blog post has brought it to the forefront of my mind again. We need to think bigger. I need to think bigger. We need a long-term strategy. Although I do have a long-term strategy for gaining influence and dominance in my field (writing), I don't know if my strategy is the best. I would love to hear your views/suggestions about strategy.
Regarding a collective goal of dominance...I have been thinking about this for a long time. I've come to the conclusion that you don't need the MAJORITY of black women to participate in order to gain dominance. You only need a fraction of the population of black women in positions of dominance to gain power. Most people are sheep and will follow the lead of those in power no matter what they say or do. Look at Nazi Germany. Disclaimer: I am in no way advocating or promoting Hitler.
Hitler had a few things going for him that allowed him to seize power over Germany and much of Europe.
1. He was passionate about his goals...Germanic domination of the world.
2. The population was looking for a "Savior" and he promised to deliver them to the promiseland. Of course in reality of he delivered them to Hell.
3. He had a master plan, and no detail was left to chance.
4. He created alliances with "strategic partners" who could help him reach his goals.
5. Anyone who got in the way of what he believed was best for the German people were ruthlessly destroyed.
The German people complied (with pockets of resistance) with Hitler's plan. They were not privy to the plan before it was already upon them and they had no choice but to comply, flee or die.
This is how leadership works (for good or bad). Note: I'm not saying that leadership should be violent/oppressive what I'm saying is that leaders do not wait for the masses of people to agree or come to some type of consensus before they take action. You only need a committed group of individuals to start and carry out any revolution. So that I leave no room for misunderstanding...Revolution is defined as a drastic and far-reaching change in ways of thinking and behaving. Black women need a revolution.
Note To Lisa: I hope I don't cause any offense by using Hitler as an example. But I believe he is the best example of how leaders good/bad use strategy to dominate even if it is for evil.
had seen an interview of you done by the activist and in my heart i was like,,great woman,,,,i think we need more women like you.Hey keep up the love in everything you do
happy new year.God bless you.
Peace and blessings Rev. Lisa--Happy Holidays to you : )
“I am dismayed that there doesn't seem to be a sense of urgency about the identification of a national strategy among our people.”
Rev Lisa, I’m not an academic, scholar, clergywoman, or even a professional--I’ve come to many judgments about this issue among others through investigation. With that I have a few things to say about this comment:
1) I’m NOT a republican or democrat. I’m currently a card carrying Libertarian as I feel that party best suites my political, and ideological beliefs for NOW…
2) When I reflect on the movements in the black community historically; the movements in the white populist community historically; and the movements within the female
( feminist) movements, all I see are both communist, and socialist methods of: education, training, organizing, ruling, and fighting. When I reflect on the movements within the Republican party all I see is a knee jerk tendency at a quasi religious state. Some one mentioned Hitler in this discussion, well, socialism, communism, and fascism can easily turn into Barbarism which what eventually happened with Germany. I also have a problem with many of us who hold up European nations as the standard when it comes to what they have accomplished in their nations instead of re-inventing or modifying our own strategy here. This is just my opinion--this is just where I am at on my life’s journey.
3) Again, I’m no expert and am still actually 1) reflecting on Khadija’s table talks and 2) am still fresh off the black nationalist boat. Where I sit from my own space is here: the fact that you are asking this question means that all of the movements I mentioned above didn’t scratch the surface of the instution they set out to tear down-- and, in this case, any establishment or instution that is harmful first, and foremost to black women, and children in particular. When ever black folks organize, it always seems to be based off either a communist or socialist model. What I’ve been scratching my head about is these models are based off wundtian psychology, and secular humanism. If any religious group is using the communist or socialist model isn’t this counterproductive? You’re defeating your cause before you even begin? Perhaps, I’m just truly weird but that’s just my take on this.
“I want all of us to think about the criteria we use to identify our allies and our adversaries.”
Again, I’m not an expert but for my own situation here is some of my criteria:
* Do you believe children should be raised in an institution or by a family?
* How much of society do you believe should or shouldn’t be regulated?
* What do you believe is the appropriate way of eliminating class warfare with out eliminating liberty?
* Can you identify government programs that appear to empower black women and children but actually end up becoming detrimental instead?
* Can you identify specific strategies of movements ( example striking) that appear to serve the collective good but produced other negative consequences instead?
* What is your position on the states conflicting punishments for rape, molestation, and incest?
* What is your position on the inclusion, and elevation for black women?
This is my own screening process so far…
Also, Rev. Lisa, I’m baffled at the data you presented on abortion…
This is a very serious post in that it contains information concerning the fornication between church and state. Rev. Lisa you have opened the eyes of many that had no idea about the backroom alliances between some of ministers and some heads of state, especially those heads in the U.S. and her partners IMF, World Bank, CFR and the like. Yet, when it comes to inclusion and dominance I wonder if people are concerned with the spiritual implications of being included into a inherently corrupt system. I wonder how one rationalizes becoming dominant in what we know is a system designed to feed on the weakness of the people, those that are lead by the marketing tactics of the CNN's, Fox or even political campaigns such as the Obama campaign. I have asked myself do I want to participate in and create a strategy that fully partipates in an attempt to become dominant in what I know is a false and destructive system?
Hi Lisa!
What an educational post!
One thing I would like to point out is that many blacks tend toward religiously conservative views. Recent examples are the re-election of Bush II and Proposition 8 in California. However, maybe because we as black people know hard times, also tend to favor individual freedom of choice. It's the ultimate conundrum. To me, the most critical point to note is that we [African Americans] must realize that many of the most prominent religious figures are really politicians who are using their congregations and donations to influence the political process. So we also must “play the game.” Next time you go to church, ask your pastor what side of the issues he or she stands on.
So, I agree with you wholeheartedly that African-Americans must become familiar with and avail themselves of the political process: in all its forms.
Welcome Beverly!
Thank you for sharing your perspectives so generously!
If you define a mega church as a church with attendance of over 1,000 every week, then there are quite a few other black clergywomen we can add to the list.
Are they operating in the same sphere as the Rick Warrens who can direct public policy and steer the national dialogue? No.
Sexism is not always the reason why we don't see black women taking center stage. Where's their dominance strategy?
Aside from not discussing or constructing a dominance strategy, where's their penetration strategy to grab seats at the table where the national dialogue unfolds?
I don't think it's offensive to hear someone use Hitler as an example. He was clearly insane but was tremendously successful in the execution of his strategy.
I notice that many of my ministry colleagues dismiss those leaders who they feel are dubious. Dismissing them does not dismantle their power bases!
Our opponents are quite happy to be dismissed and ignored by us! They can continue executing their dominance strategies without dealing with us.
Plenty of church leaders start railing when the Rick Warrens of this world claim a larger and larger portion of the territory that they don't have access to. Aren't they the very ones who dismissed the Rick Warrens?
Remember the playground dynamics in grade school? There was the child who cried about others who didn't play fair and screamed "foul" about the playground bully. There was also the child who dethroned the playground bully without becoming the next bully.
Which posture best defines the one demonstrated by black women (and black people)?
To strategize for dominance, we need to understand the game board. Khadija said in the first comment that we have to decide what we want, and know why dominance strategy is needed before we can even start constructing dominance strategy.
I agree with her.
I think we pay attention to the maneuvering - when it's blatant - but we don't don't thoroughly examine the nuances of how the game unfolds.
There is a difference between observing the game as an outsider who watches maneuvers of others, and studying the game as a strategist who is intent on mastering the game board.
I don't feel that we have mastered the rules so we aren't positioning ourselves to change the rules. Frankly, I don't believe that we have even correctly identified all of the pieces on the board.
I hope this group discussion will result in an identification of some approaches that will enable us to effectively address this situation!
Peace, blessings and DUNAMIS!
Lisa
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Welcome Robyn!
I enjoyed the interview and I thank you for reading it and stopping by! I am so appreciative of your encouragement.
Please feel welcome to add your viewpoints to this dialogue whenever you'd like!
Peace, blessings and DUNAMIS!
Lisa
_________________________________
Welcome Sister Seeking!
Thank you for sharing!
You have given all of us some more to chew on!
I look forward to the responses of the rest of the group to what you have added.
Excellent points!
You mentioned the statistics on black women and abortion.
Related link:
http://www.guttmacher.org/
pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html
Related link:
http://blackascent.blogspot.com/
2006/08/black-women-abortion.html
Related link:
CDC Abortion Surveillance 2005
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/PDF/ss/ss5713.pdf
(Updated 11/28/2008)
I hope that more black women will blog about how abortion marketing to low-income black women has impacted the population growth of blacks within this country. (Black women from the lower socioeconomic tiers tend to have more children than black women from other socioeconomic tiers.)
I also hope that black women will blog about the socioeconomic obstacles associated with continued unplanned pregnancies.
Peace, blessings and DUNAMIS!
Lisa
_________________________________
Welcome Ensayn1!
Thanks for adding another dimension to this group examination!
I am glad to see the brothas coming to the think tank to weigh in on these issues!
I know that many people may not have looked at these issues from this angle, but I haven't shared any insider information.
It's not a secret that these international ministry conglomerates have to initiate political relationships in the countries that they intend to operate in.
Many people aren't aware that the church is functioning as the mistress of the state because they choose not to look closely at what has been happening.
These millionaire celebrity preachers can create collaborations with non-profit humanitarian organizations and advocacy organizations and no one raises a brow...not even when these organizations are connected to the wives of politicians.... or connected to the adult children and in-laws of politicians... or connected to the close associates of politicians.
Does the black community ever connect the dots? No one connects the dots because they don't bother to master the game board.
No one sees that these collaborations are connected to politicians who are decision-makers on certain committees that impact radio and television?
The truly gullible will assume that all of these televangelists have an interest in helping sick children, or in curing cancer, or in eradicating AIDS/HIV. {rolling my eyes}
No one ever speculates that the alliance (that looks humanitarian at the surface) is actually part of an agenda to build a bridge to a political alliance that can influence a powerful legislative committee.
How gullible will our people be?
I was in a blog discussion earlier this year and was absolutely floored at the naivety expressed by those who claim to be paying attention! When I mentioned that I was a ghostwriter, there were people who actually thought that these denomination leaders and pulpit celebrities are all writing their own books!
How gullible will our people be?
It's well known by many in the Christian publishing industry that Billy Graham used a ghostwriter.
There is one successful Christian ghostwriter who claims to have written more than 100 books. That person is still openly advertising ghostwriting services to televangelists!
It's not that others are being so shrewd and cunning. We just don't bother to examine the game board.
There is a pecular tactic called "hiding in plain sight". It is a tactic that I am seeing quite often.
For example, there are plenty of nonprofit organizations that function as "pass through" organizations. Every now and then, the media exposes one or two blatant ones, but the next day, it's business as usual. The press releases are issued from the accused about "fully cooperating with investigations". The investigations, of course, lead no where, and were never intended to lead anywhere. It's just a maneuver on the game board.
These international ministry conglomerates fully understand that the expansion of their message is directly related to the transmission of that message - print, television and radio.
Is it a surprise that these global ministries have diligently initiated connections to those who control the publishing world, the television world, and the radio world?
Hundreds of millions of people watch these television preachers in countries througout the world. Every day, they click their mouse on their computer and send a donation.
Does anyone wonder WHOSE bank account the money goes into when the "donate" button on the ministry web site is clicked by the television viewer?
Let me take it even further.
We all have noticed that most of the international ministry conglomerates have lots of different web sites.
Notice how these web sites contain donate buttons on different pages?
Who really knows WHICH bank account the mouse click leads to on which page of the site?
Non-profit organizations submit audited financial statements, but hiring an auditor to "review" the financial records doesn't mean that money games aren't being played.
An electronic deposit can hit one bank account and be transferred to another bank account in less than a second.
Who follows the money trail?
It's not illegal for a ministry conglomerate to pay people who are in this country from an off shore account.
Guess which segment of the black community gives the most money to televangelists? Black women! Of course.
Guess which segment of the black community finances the black church? Black women! Of course.
Your question is a valuable one for this group to consider.
Allow me to pose another.
How do we expect to EVER attain dominance while remaining disconnected from and ill-informed about the existing power channels?
How do we expect to alter the power system while remaining on the outside of it?
Peace, blessings and DUNAMIS!
Lisa
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The following comment was submitted by Beverly at 12:27 PM and pasted in below by the blog administrator.
Beverly said...
@ Sister Seeking
You said:
Some one mentioned Hitler in this discussion, well, socialism, communism, and fascism can easily turn into Barbarism which what eventually happened with Germany. I also have a problem with many of us who hold up European nations as the standard when it comes to what they have accomplished in their nations instead of re-inventing or modifying our own strategy here.
Let me correct your assumption about me "holding up European Nations as the standard." Europeans do not have a patent on these strategies or ways of leading revolutions. I look at all cultures whether they are European, Asian, African etc. for strategies, ideas etc. that can benefit me. I also want to make it clear that I believe that when it comes to DOMINATING, Europeans have mastered their strategy. The proof is in the pudding. We CAN learn from them. I also never suggested that "socialism, communism, and fascism" was the culture Black women should take on and make their own. This is nowhere in my post. I simply pointed out that Hitler in all of his evilness had essential qualities that were necessary to cause a revolution in Germany. I also said the following:
Note: I'm not saying that leadership should be violent/oppressive what I'm saying is that leaders do not wait for the masses of people to agree or come to some type of consensus before they take action.
One last point I want to make is that we NEED to look to other cultures also, including Europeans if we want to learn successful strategies that we may not know about as a people. When I wanted to learn about money, that is true generational wealth, I set down (over several weeks) with an Asian friend who had wealth going back hundreds of years. This helped me immensely. We can't lock out others who can give info we may be able to use simply because they are "not one of us."
@Lisa
I agree, those Black clergy women do not have the influence and power on a national level. You've got me thinking about grade school or what we called grammar school. ;-) Black women do have the posture of the kid who cries about how the bully won't play fair. LOL
__________________________________
Welcome IamRobert!
Thanks for adding to this conversation!
Peace, blessings and DUNAMIS!
Lisa
As a spiritual person, how do you see God in all this? the relationship between BW and God in this?
Thanks.
Beverly,
I understood your premise regarding Hitler’s leadership the first time.
You said: One last point I want to make is that we NEED to look to other cultures also, including Europeans if we want to learn successful strategies that we may not know about as a people. When I wanted to learn about money, that is true generational wealth, I set down (over several weeks) with an Asian friend who had wealth going back hundreds of years. This helped me immensely. We can't lock out others who can give info we may be able to use simply because they are "not one of us."
I concur to a point…
I’m hearing loud and clear EVERYTHING you’re saying…
I concur with you to a point…
I remain firm on my position that I’M unwilling to absorb the political ideology from other nations which I believe to be in direct conflict with the constitution, and republic of our nation. There is a HUGE difference between picking apart some else’s culture to determine what you will or will not practice versus adapting their entire system of governance or trying to monkey wrench parts of their system with ours.
Also, my response was NOT a knee jerk reaction to much of anything you wrote. The
fact that you mentioned Hitler simply reminded me of how black folks have always relied on movements from European nations instead of reinventing or modifying a strategy where we can work from within the system.
Communism, socialism, and fascism IS NOT this nation’s system of governance therefore, I do not see using methods common to those movements as a successful way to work from within the system. If you or others do, that’s your prerogative.
Also, its just down right unwise to NOT study the success or failure of other nations and their governments. If you want to RULE you must. I believe mankind is interdependent upon one another, I do not see communism, socialism or fascism facilitating interdependence. I do not see theocracy or facilitating interdependence either. All civilizations have an incline and decline--with due respect, the west is currently in decline. The West is in a decline --that includes parts of Europe who practice all these systems of government. SOMETHING IS WRONG? If we do not learn from our mistakes we will repeat them again. This is what I believe. Nobody is obligated to follow or agree with anything I say.
That’s where I stand.
I respect where you stand.
I will NOT be moved.
Peace
Beverley,
A better response to your recent response would be this:
Even if you NEVER mentioned Hitler or Europe I would of said the same thing. When I have these discussion in real life, I say the same thing, and ALWAYS get the same response from black folks. I never get that response from other groups who are not hard core supporters of our so called two party system. I've been saying it for some time now because those are my core beliefs and values politically.
FYI, I'm a former ward of the state. I do not trust the state because of my experience, my research and investigation.
I can not in good conscience--I would not be true to myself if I supported in any way shape or form anything that reinforced what I see as statism.
I see statism as the number one contributing factor to the destruction of black families.
Again, I remain firm on my position, and I'm in this struggle for the well being and political protection of my own progeny.
Peace
Welcome back, Beverly!
Welcome back, SisterSeeking!
Thanks for exchanging viewpoints so constructively. I am happy to see a very engaging dialogue going on.
Peace, blessings and DUNAMIS!
Lisa
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Welcome Miriam!
How I see God will not be how the next person sees God.
Black women do not have ONE spiritual background that all will embrace. Some are Christian, some are Wiccan, some are in cults that claim to be Christian organizations, some pray to the dead apostles of Christ whom they believe have been given authority by God to hear prayers and to act on them, some are Muslim, some are are Jewish, some embrace tribal religions, and so on.
Even Christians do not have the same theology. I can not separate the construction of theology from the formation of relationship.
When Muslims refer to "GOD", they are not referring to Jesus Christ.
When Satanists refer to "Our Lord" they are not referring to Jesus Christ.
When New Agers talk about "Divine Presence" and "Universe" and "Providence", they are not referring to Jesus Christ.
I do not doubt that it is clear to you that black women do not have a monolithic spiritual foundation or identification.
Please feel free to elaborate more so I will better understand your thought process.
As you clarify your question, please feel free to answer your own question and share the thoughts that ignited your question.
Peace, blessings and DUNAMIS!
Lisa
Sister Seeking
You said: I never get that response from other groups who are not hard core supporters of our so called two party system.
My question is, what response do you get from other groups?
You said: Communism, socialism, and fascism IS NOT this nation’s system of governance therefore, I do not see using methods common to those movements as a successful way to work from within the system.
What are some of the methods you think would be most successful in helping black women work within America's current system?
You said: I can not in good conscience--I would not be true to myself if I supported in any way shape or form anything that reinforced what I see as statism.
Let me make sure I am hearing you correctly. When I say, "...leaders do not wait for the masses of people to agree or come to some type of consensus before they take action. You only need a committed group of individuals to start and carry out any revolution," you see this as "statism." Is that a correct assessment of what you're saying?
I looked up the word statism and it says "A belief in the importance of the power of the state over an individual" Is this how you define statism?
I'm not sure if I believe statism is good or bad. Honestly, I never thought about it until you brought it up, at least not in terms of statism.
I guess what you're saying is that if "leaders" move ahead and "force" upon the masses what they think is best for them, then this is statism. Is that correct? I also conclude that you may be saying that statism is not a sustainable system. Is that also correct?
I will have to think about this idea of statism some more.
I also want to make it clear that my ideas and positions are ALWAYS changeable. If anyone on this board sees something I write and believe that it is flawed or in someway not the best solution for myself or others, PLEASE let me know. Although I'm here to share my ideas, I am mostly here to gain ideas.
Thanks SisterSeeking for sharing. I will give what you have said lots of thought. And I look forward to hearing your further input.
What I think happens to black people, and acutally the population in general, is we don't take the time to really examine what we are talking about when we are speaking or writing. Often we assume the conotation of words are the true definiton of them. And in fact, this works when speaking with our friends, family and work associates.
But, when examining government and it's interplay with the general population accepting the conotation of words can become a handicap. Rev. Lisa replied saying "...I haven't shared any insider information." Connecting the dots is not a difficult task once we drop the veil of superiority place over our eyes by the political players. Yet, many appear to be surprised by what she wrote as if it were insider information, since few take the time to remove the veil. This is due in part because we do not take the time to really examine language when it comes to government and their players.
Here we see a discussion contaning whether or not Communisim, Socialism or Facism is a system of governance. In fact these are NOT governmental systems, but are economic systems. This often happens when we accept conotation over definition. The government players, the majority, are lawyers. This it not a mistake. This came into fashion since they, in Congress (this includes the Senate) are called the "law makers" thus more lawyers in Congress. Yet, really and truly they are policy makers most often ammending laws already in place.
I mention this because Rev. Lisa has brought up the subject of working to attain dominance, and Khadija said we should examine where exactly we would like to work towards this goal. I think one of the first steps of examination is to really gain an understanding about the words being used by political players when they are speaking. They ALL often play on what the population DOES NOT know concering the words being used when they are speaking. Yet, most being lawyers, have a full understanding about what they are saying and most often we do not. Bill Clinton is a Rhodes Scholar, and many in the general population found it comical during his impeachment when Clinton responded with "...it depends on what your definiton of is, is." However, Mr. Clinton went on to win his impeachment and was not removed from office. We are dealing with some serious issues and times here, and we should not take it lightly when examining the situation and really examining ourselves. What you think you know and what you know aren't the same.
First things first:
It was NOT my intention to focus exclusively on socialism, communism, fascism, statism, etc. I apologize if I’ve taken the conversation off point. Reverend Lisa asked for feed back, and so I gave her my own feed back based off my beliefs and values. No, I’m not troll trying to misdirect the energy here. Just wanted to put that out there.
@ Beverly
I’m reflecting on the best way to answer all of your questions, and when I come to a conclusion, I’ll get back with you. Just wanted to let you know I respect your time, and will get back with you.
Also, my goal is to NOT change peoples core values, and beliefs. My goal is to NOT require others to substitute my judgment for their own. I believe in freedom of conscience. My goal is to share where I stand on issues across the spectrum really, and what I can or can not do about those various issues. I’m open to hearing people out, I’m opening to joining the bandwagon to a degree, but I do have core beliefs ,and values that I’m unwilling to compromise or change. That’s just who I am.
If you believe your position is correct--by all means keep going. I become very leery when I see that only one political position is supposedly the best position for black women, and children--or for black people or any ethnic group at all.
@ Ensayn1
When I return, I’m going to respond to some of your comments which I personally felt was a weak attack on my intellectual character. And by the way, I could personally care less about the Clintons--they nor Obama are my great hope for anything. I’m not a democrat and I’m not blindly following any party including the one I currently belong to.
I’m trying to avoid thread hogging so I’m going to half to condense my responses…
Welcome back, Beverly!
Thanks for sharing your views.
You posed a fantastic question:
"What are some of the methods you think would be most successful in helping black women work within America's current system?
I hope all who are in this group dialogue will take time to answer it!
It is a question that is vitally important and extremely relevant.
Peace, blessings and DUNAMIS!
Lisa
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Welcome back, Ensayn1!
Thank you so much for making such an excellent point.
It is salient advice for all of us to examine what we think we know.
Peace, blessings and DUNAMIS!
Lisa
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Welcome back, SisterSeeking!
Thanks for giving those clarifications!
Because I am a minister, I often encounter people who want to argue with me about different aspects of Christianity (as they define it).
I find that when people challenge my thought processes, it does not mean that they are launching a personal attack or that they are diminishing my personhood in any way by pointing out the possible errors in my argument. When they challenge what I am presenting, it does not mean that they are personally attacking my intellectual character.
I used to be a public school teacher. Well-intentioned students would raise their hands and make all kinds of incorrect statements. As an educator, I believed that it was my duty to correct them as I was teaching them.
I realize, however, that in discussions such as this, "correct/incorrect" is often relative.
I have encountered Ensayn1 in many online blog discussions. He never launches any attacks on anyone. It is not in his character to do so. I believe that he comes to online discussions with the intention of teaching as well as sharing.
I certainly welcome his attention to any ridiculous comments or weak arguments that I may place in this forum.
I notice that he will push others to examine their positions from many angles; I think all skilled conversationalists would do so in a think tank such as this.
Peace, blessings and DUNAMIS!
Lisa
Sisterseeking, I was not attacking any one. It was not an attack. It had nothing to do with you personally or you at all. I was pointing out that often when we speak it is on one level and when politicians speak it is on a two pronged level. I merely used the examples of communism, facism and socalism, which are often confused by the many to believe these are forms of governance. Those words set up my point.
As far as Clinton, caring about him had nothing to do with my point which was about words and how they are used by politicians vs non politicians.
Concerning attacks. It is not my goal to bring about disharmony. However, should I feel I need to confront a commentor or situation it will NEVER be weak and WILL be direct. I do not slide around and back handedly speak about or against any one. I do not function on fear. This is a place to discuss information, ideas and solutions.
@ Beverly
Before I respond, I just wanted to reiterate that my intention is NOT to convert you or dismiss your beliefs or values. I’m sharing my own beliefs, values, and WHAT ACTION I’m taking to see to it that my beliefs are carried out beyond a “complaint” “vent” or “criticism” mode. I also want to reiterate that I’m NOT an expert, scholar, etc--as I did when I first responded to the op request for feed back. I also want to add that I’m OPEN to hearing from you and others TANGIBLE actions or steps --anything I can do advance black women ,and children that doesn’t require me to submit to some one else’s ideology for example maybe a step would be: tutoring black children? SWIM?
I looked up the word statism and it says "A belief in the importance of the power of the state over an individual" Is this how you define statism?
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I define statism as a form of government AND economic system that exercises, regulates, and intervenes with personal, social, and economic matters. This is why I brought up those other political/economic systems: as much as “some want to compartmentalize everything, you can not separate the economic system from its government? I believe that our economic system directly relates to our individual freedom which relates to our ability to DOMINATE-- Being shut out; being overly regulated; being under regulated; and everything in between reduces ANY groups ability to influence decisions--especially decisions that actually affect them. This is why I brought up my concerns with the AA community’s history of gravitating toward certain economic systems and this is why I also brought up my concern with theocracy and Totalitarianism
Because *systems* of government are interrelated with ANY economic system. This is what I believe. Also, I’ve noticed Rev. Lisa mention NUMEROUS times how black women contribute financial and other resources to so many groups with various ideologies that don’t serve our interest. This is another reason I mentioned both economic systems AND forms of governments. If we have such wealth why are interest not being respected? Why do we half to rely on non profits or private political organizations to represent our causes--why not buck that and go straight to the source: uncle Sam? If those methods were effective why would Rev. Lisa or any other blogger or heck person be asking how can we advance ourselves? Could it be how we are conditioned? Could it be how outsiders reinforce that conditioning because it allows us to be DOMINATED? That’s what I’m trying to get at is: question, question, question. Also, I’m not saying she mentioned that for the points I’m making here.
I simply pointed out that Hitler in all of his evilness had essential qualities that were necessary to cause a revolution in Germany. I also said the following:
Note: I'm not saying that leadership should be violent/oppressive what I'm saying is that leaders do not wait for the masses of people to agree or come to some type of consensus before they take action.
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Beverly I DID understand your emphasis in not imitating the evil, violence, and hatefulness of such a horrid human being. I DID get that. My specific issue began when you said: “leaders do not wait for the masses of people to agree or come to some type of consensus before they take action.”
I do not believe this is democracy-- our ( my apologies if you’re not black I’m assuming here) people have a very cultish way when it comes to black leadership. I’ve seen other ethnic groups duke it out with each over ( not suggesting violence here) when it comes to who will or will not represent their issues. Many bloggers have been asking: WHAT IS OUR OR YOUR VETTING PROCESS? What you mention here is so undemocratic that it doesn’t allow for ANY Vetting process which is why I believe we are in the condition we are in NOW. I was once in a cult, and I recognize a “closed system” when I see one because I was apart of one myself-- its all the same be it religious, political, etc. That’s the problem I had with this statement, and using Hitler as an example made my “protect my freedom, and freedom of conscience” radar go WAY UP LOL LOL LOL You honestly freaked me out LOL LOL LOL I’ve learned through blogging that the civil rights movements have primarily benefited black men which by and large have terminated their contract with us as evidenced in the condition of our children and therefore going enroot to a private political organization versus an actual party or at least government system will not help. This is what I believe.
You said: I can not in good conscience--I would not be true to myself if I supported in any way shape or form anything that reinforced what I see as statism.
Let me make sure I am hearing you correctly. When I say, "...leaders do not wait for the masses of people to agree or come to some type of consensus before they take action. You only need a committed group of individuals to start and carry out any revolution," you see this as "statism." Is that a correct assessment of what you're saying?
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YES MA’AM. I’m sorry for sounding repetitive but I’m pressed for another way to explain. The reason why I believe this is because our civil rights groups often DID have connections to European movements that were communist-Marxists-etc. What I’ve seen of our community is asking the government to regulate more: which includes not only our economic system but our social and personal lives as well. I’m sorry, but at my core I believe in freedom, and that is not freedom to me. Anyone claiming to be leader that happens to be in either a) position of influence b) position of authority c) position of dominance can than decide that they don’t require the consensus of the people and act according to what ever they believe to best for every one--its ironic that you used Hitler as example because this is exactly what happened!
I mentioned being a former foster. It would be beyond the scope of this discussion and blog to dissect how that disclosure is relevant to this conversation so I’ll do two things 1) recommend some literature and 2) explain one question I consider apart of my vetting process:
The Lost Children of Wilder: The Epic Struggle to Change Foster Care
by Nina Bernstein
WHY? --The marriage between “church and state” is no secret to me. I recommend reading this book not to drum up a pity party for my foster care experience if you read this book you will see how religious institutions that were wedded to the state using state funds, and power have systematically destroyed elements of our family life in the black community. Yes, what happens to the kids in this book is a sure tear jerker but you miss the point if YOU DON’T STUDY how, and why this marriage happened and why our own form of government and its legal system protected these religious institution instead of the children. The other point with this is population control and how that has impacted us--there is a reason that the Hispanic community out numbers us and its not solely due to “illegal immigration.”
NEA: Trojan Horse in American Education by Samuel L. Blumenfeld
WHY-- I’ve been screaming from the top of my longs for about four years now that in order to RULE black folks need to find other ways to educate their children than through “government schooling.” I believe public schooling is another way to indoctrinate and control the population--and the earlier the better. THE NEA is labor union when both communist and socialist roots. Bloggers are asking why have we ALLOWED others to define OUR terms, OUR conditions, OUR needs, and OUR goals--its because of our public school training. Public schools are government schools. This is what I believe. This is problem for ALL people but its worse for black people who even in a communist or social economic system loose out by red shirted and placed in category that deliberately locks them out of both systems. Until ALL Americans but especially those who are weak wake up and see this WE WILL NEVER dominate much of anything. This is what I believe
Separating School & State: How to Liberate America's Families
by Sheldon Richman
WHY-- I believe that black families ( and I include interracial families in this because the white society is the one applying the one drop rule and the white spouse can not completely pass on their white privilege with out completing tearing down the networks, associations, and systems in place that serve the white male establishment) unlike other groups of people, we are quick to accept anything public with out questioning the big picture. I’m NOT against social services: I am against helping out by taking over--we are speaking of domination--how is that for domination? I believe that the state has completely replaced the family--but in our case--the farther completely. This is what I believe.
Weapons of Mass Instruction: A Schoolteacher's Journey through the Dark World of Compulsory Schooling by John Taylor Gatto
Finally, I mentioned that one way I determine if I can work with any organized anything is if they believe children should be educated, trained, reared, and cared for by a state institution or by a family and selected members of their community. Anything that breaks up families is enemy number one to me. There have been periods in some of the Asian countries you mentioned or some one mentioned where through the public schools children were taught to inform on their own parents knowing the consequences would be death or imprisonment. I personally believe that many black families are in a state of anarchy ( I hate to use that word) because we have been conditioned through our educational system that structure comes externally versus internally. We are constantly seeking order outside of our family units and communities. I do not believe we as black women are going anywhere as long as we don’t have families or come from families. On a religious note, I personally believe surrendering your children to the government for care is against God’s natural laws. And will produce unnatural results.
This is where I stand Beverly, and I understand your sincerity and concern to see that we advance, live well, and succeed--I just want to make sure that I’m not giving up my freedom in the process.
Peace
Thank you Rev. Lisa, Its uncanny how you can intuit my personality from my comments and post.
Sisterseeking, no offense was ever intended on a personal level.
What are some of the methods you think would be most successful in helping black women work within America's current system?
I have a few ideas but again I’m not scholar and I’m not suggesting they are what’s best
1) Reclaim the right to direct the education, training, and care of your own children.
2) Demand of law enforcement what other women from other ethnic groups always have: “law enforcement” and I mean that literally. Work with your local city councils, board of supervisors, senators, and representatives. Find allies who will support justice enforcement and demand respect from the law enforcement community--if we don’t get it vote them out and explain to women and the hook hear mothers how not enforcing justice for us will spill over to them.
3) We need to some how or some way form a black woman’s league that is apart of the government something similar to what the Native Americans have or a group that government automatically consults. I think this league must be elected. I think this league should have black women from ALL religious, political, class, educational, and ideological backgrounds--and not all of the women should be experts there should be grassroots or lay women as well. I think this league should be required to be held accountable by black women and children. league, council, board etc something along those lines. I think that there should be care to not seek from the government what is naturally meant to come from families. And if the govt is involved that it doesnt take over the situation.
4) Question EVERY party system and determine what if any party is right for you. Encourage others to do the same.
If I can think of anything else I’ll get back with you.
Peace
No problem Ensayn1
It's all good! : )
You're right: we have some SERIOUSLY HARD issues to deal with.
I respect your concern.
: )
Off to work...
Good post. I agree with much that you say. Obama had to switch up to get the votes but I really think he is running his presidency as one who will allow many voices to at least speak. If he had done so during the campaign it might not have worked well for him.
And cosmetic equality- loving that term. I believe, especially in the media and show business, that is the real aim instead of what diversity is really about and giving people of color real roles.
Sisterseeking said: …I do not believe this is democracy-- our ( my apologies if you’re not black I’m assuming here) people have a very cultish way when it comes to black leadership. I’ve seen other ethnic groups duke it out with each over ( not suggesting violence here) when it comes to who will or will not represent their issues. Many bloggers have been asking: WHAT IS OUR OR YOUR VETTING PROCESS? What you mention here is so undemocratic that it doesn’t allow for ANY Vetting process which is why I believe we are in the condition we are in NOW.
SisterSeeking, I am black; but I don't believe saying, “leaders do not wait for the masses of people to agree or come to some type of consensus before they take action.” is caused by my blackness or my mentality being cultish. LoL But I will say this, when the civil rights "agitators" pressed for the banishment of Jim Crow, many southern Blacks did not want to rock the boat. These leaders did not wait for black people to come to a consensus before they took action. This is what I'm talking about.
I define consensus as an opinion or position reached by a group as a whole.
Taking action without consensus does not necessarily translate into compulsion, although it could. For example, when I lived in Atlanta, I noticed that there were drug dealers nearby, so I took action to get rid of them. I did not wait on the community to come to a consensus before I took action. On the other hand, if I used my power to pass an arbitrary law saying that no woman could have an abortion under any circumstances, that would be taking action without consensus; but it would also be compulsion which I am against. I believe in taking action without consensus; but I do not ever believe in compulsion. This is something I should have said before.
For example, I would support private boarding schools for disadvantaged black girls (from the black underclass) designed to socialize them in a way that would increase their chances of success in our society. I know this is where you and I part ways completely. I do not believe that the black underclass is healthy enough to break the cycle of poverty and disenfranchisement without intervention that is designed to change the culture of failure in the black underclass. I believe that if you allowed people living in let's say, the Chicago projects to home school their children that would be a disaster. I know this is not a popular thing to say. I'm not saying that all of these people are incapable of passing on a culture of success to their children; but I'm saying the majority are not capable. I would only support a boarding school that was completely voluntary, no compulsion involved.
Regarding vetting leaders…just because a leader takes action doesn't mean that you have to follow them. A leader taking action without a consensus does not stop the vetting process for each individual. However, just because an individual leader is not liked by some does not necessarily stop them from taking action and gaining dominance.
Regarding your points of action, I must agree with most of what you said.
Okay, I have to go now. Thanks for your feedback, I will see if I can find those books at the American Library.
Okay, I can't leave without answering my own question. LOL
"What are some of the methods you think would be most successful in helping black women work within America's current system?
The first method I think would be most successful in helping black women gain dominance within America's current system is to LEARN the system first. Learn America's systems (cultural, political, economic, social). Find out how they work. Years ago I was browsing the internet and ran across a website for Hispanics teaching them how the American legal system works. It was very detailed.
Second, we need to actually get involved in the system. I'm taking my steps in the cultural avenues now. Others may choose economic or political.
That's just a couple of thoughts. Got to go now. :-)
Sister you are a true trumpet blowing in the dark night! WELL SPOKEN and I agree on all accounts.
People are so quick to judge with out truly making an effort to study. So much lack of due diligence.
Too much emphasis is put on the color, political affliation and not enough emphasis is put on what a person is really made of at their core.
Moreover we do need to stop letting others dominant our lives. It's great we have Obama but he can't walk on water. We need to make inward and collective change in our community, our families and ourselves to see real change happen.
I'm going to have to read this post again so much good to disgest.
I definitely learned a lot about Rick Warren via this post...
Hi Lisa,
I am so sorry that I could not participate more in this conversation. But I am enjoying alot of the points made here and agree with alot. Except want to add something.
I believe its IMPERATIVE that black rule in their domain. Their schooling, their everything. I even would go as far as to say I believe its our destiny to regain that rulership.
However, it can be difficult in interracial marriage if the non-black spouse is not aware of all that's been discussed here.
Great blog.
I don't have anything new to add but just wanted to say that this is a powerful post!
thank you.
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